Interview by Lluis Amiguet.
Josep Colomer is a Professor of Political Science at Georgetown University
Why the number of Catalans for independence has doubled in three years?
Because Spain has collapsed during seven years of crisis and thousands of young people have left, so it is not surprising that many Catalans want to rid of it too.
Where to?
Here begins the conceptual problem of Catalan independence movement, which seeks an independence that no longer exists. That “full sovereignty” that haunts the Catalan nationalists is so last century: an outdated model which in today’s Europe would be regressive.
But the EU are sovereign states.
In fact, the only truly independent state in Europe is Albania, because it is outside the EU and the euro… Advanced societies today are interdependent.
Why Catalonia cannot be inside the EU and outside Spain?
Sure it might be, but no longer as a sovereign state. In fact, neither the Spanish state is sovereign anymore. It has transferred its powers to the EU decision on key issues such as defense, borders, currency and fiscal and financial policy.
Does Madrid not decide?
That’s why the Spanish Parliament de facto no longer legislates on really big issues but merely ratifies the decisions of Brussels.
Does the Spanish sovereignty not exist?
As much as the Spanish nationalism claimed “national sovereignty”, the fact is that in practice it is another relic.
And the “train wreck” another?
That’s two ghost trains, because European integration has greatly reduced the powers of these two legitimacies. It would have been wise to avoid it by maturing in the spirit of consensus that managed the transition to democracy in the 1970s.
Does Scottish independence also seem regressive?
The Scottish Parliament invited me there to explain my vision and the first minister Alex Salmond presented the aims of the Scottish National Party: call it independence or whatever, but they aim at increasing their level of self-government while keeping interdependencies with the UK and the EU, NATO, the pound… and preserving as head of state the Queen of England.
It does not sound very independent.
Recently in Washington, I attended an exchange of views of Salmond with senior officials from the Pentagon, the CIA and the State Department…
And how was he?
More than independence, he spoke of strengthening relationships and gave figures: first, that Scotland would pay more to NATO.
Very clever.
I do not want to make comparisons, but the Catalan independence movement still does not understand that the problem is primarily international. As for the awkwardness of the Spanish Government, makes me envy the restraint and elegance of David Cameron in Scotland.
If independence is an outdated purpose, what do you propose?
Harnessing governmental and decision mechanisms at all local, regional, state and European levels and, above all, to participate in the construction of Europe. Otherwise, our politicians in Brussels are like nineteenth century deputies representing his town in Madrid without knowing they were missing something much bigger.
Do our parliaments no longer count?
During the last seven years they have been limited to ratify decisions by Brussels and Berlin and to make political show statements. Neither the Spanish Congress nor the Catalan Parliament approve anything substantial, so the news of corruption take over the entire public debate.
Will our political party system implode?
Democratic Spain is the only country in Europe that has not had a coalition government, while the EU moves ahead led by grand coalitions as the German one, capable of generating broad consensus.
Do you think that could be achieved here?
Also for the Catalan representatives it would be realistic to assert their power and influence over the grand coalition that might be formed to govern in Madrid and to agree on another multiparty government in Catalonia. Surveys anticipate fragmentation, but what we need are stable governments of broad spectrum and high social support to rebuild the institutions and the economy.
The EU almost crumbles these years.
Instead, the crisis has accelerated European integration.
Apparently not in a rush.
The EU unites more rapidly today that the US did in its time: think that the rules for the election of the House of Representatives and the Senate took 140 years to be built up, and that the Federal Reserve or the FBI are achievements of 1913. The EU is already going faster.
It is perceived as a difficult way forward.
But unstoppable: Europe already has markets and harmonized legislation, the euro, the Central Bank, an ongoing banking union… As for an European fiscal union, it might be better to follow the US model, where Washington and the states split by about half the collection and investment of financial resources. And Washington does not bail out bankrupt states.
